Cheney V. the Truth
Courtesey of The Washington Monthly,
What Cheney Said:
"Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you Senator Gone."
The Actual Truth:
Cheney was referring to The Pilot, a small paper in Pinehurst, NC — not Edwards' hometown. What's more, as they themselves put it today, "The Pilot hasn't 'taken to calling him' anything."
What Cheney Said:
"The senator has got his facts wrong. I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
The Actual Truth:
Cheney knows perfectly well that he's been one of the administration's biggest boosters of alleged ties between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. In September 2003 Cheney said "[Iraq is] the geographical base of the terrorists who had us under assault for many years, but most especially on 9-11." What's more, he has suggested that Saddam Hussen was connected with 9/11 on numerous other occasions.
What Cheney Said:
"...the 90 percent figure is just dead wrong. When you include the Iraqi security forces that have suffered casualties, as well as the allies, they've taken almost 50 percent of the casualties in operations in Iraq."
The Actual Truth:
Edwards wasn't "dead wrong." He was dead right. Iraq isn't part of the coalition(and has never been listed as part of the "Coalition of the Willing"), as of Tuesday 1,061 American service members had been killed compared to 136 from non-U.S. coalition forces. That's 88% of all coalition casualties.
What Cheney Said:
"They know the charges are false.
They know that if you go, for example, to factcheck.com [sic], an independent Web site sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania, you can get the specific details with respect to Halliburton."
The Actual Truth:
Cheney meant to refer to factcheck.org, but it doesn't really matter because they don't have anything that addresses Edwards' accusations anyway. In fact, Edwards' charges are all accurate.
(In a statement released after the debate, factcheck.org said, "...Edwards was talking about Cheney's responsibility for earlier Halliburton troubles. And in fact, Edwards was mostly right.")
What Cheney Said:
"The Kerry record on taxes is one basically of voting for a large number of tax increases -- 98 times in the United States Senate."
The Actual Truth:
That's a change from the old charge that Kerry has voted to increase taxes 350 times, but it's still false. Factcheck.org — the website Cheney endorsed — says Cheney's number isn't even close to the truth.
What Cheney Said:
Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session.
The Actual Truth:
In the past 4 years, there have been 128 Tuesdays. Dick Cheney has served as the presiding officer in the Seate over 2 of them.
One more time, Dick Cheney has presided over 2 Tuesdays, or 1.5% of the total.
During the same period, John Edwards also presided over the Senate twice.
Full list of presiding officers here.
CAN YOU SAY CREDIBILITY GAP!!!!!!!
posted by ian @ 5:09 PM
7 comments
7 Comments:
Great write up. I hope some of the news media do their job and report on some of your discoveries about Cheney's "facts". One comment - while gravitas certainly has something to do with appearnce, is it only that? Can there be dignity (gravitias) without truth.
1.) How do you know what newspaper Cheney was referring to?
2.) The difficulty you're having is in differentiating between when someone is talking about the government of Iraq and the geography of Iraq. We do know that al Qaeda was in Iraq pre-9/11. We do not know that Saddam helped them with the 9/11 attack.
3.) Cheney was exactly right to call Edwards on his pathetic fear-mongering and ignoring the sacrifices of the Iraqis. You might also point out that in Korea, coalition action that Kerrey has cited as an excellent example of how to do things, the U.S. sustained 88% of the casualities if you do the dishonorable Kerry/Edwards math and leave out the Koreans.
4.) As you can see if you look at the transcripts, Cheney was referring to Edwards's charge that he was benefitting financially from Halliburton's wartime contracts. Don't believe everything you read in the media.
5.) Cheney did not "endorse" a website. He referred people to it and said it was non-partisan. The link is down, but I have a hard time believing the Kerry has not voted to raise taxes AT LEAST 98 times.
6.) Cheney said he IS the presiding officer of the Senate. Obviously he was not presiding over the Senate at the moment he said the words. He was referring to the VP's duties as president of the Senate. Further, when he said he was in the Senate most Tuesdays, he did not say that he was presiding over it each time he is there. Each day different senators are rotated through presiding, which is the post in which they moderate debates, keep to the schedule, etc. It's a drudge job, so most of the high-ranking people don't want it (hence Edwards getting it twice). You need to learn how the Senate works before you go spouting off.
Although, it seems you're just regurgitating things the media has spoon fed you.
GE, seroisuly, you need to lay off the Kool Aid… PUT DOWN THE GLASS!!! And don’t ever try and lecture me about simply listening to media talking points.
1). Edwards’ actual hometown newspaper, The News & Observer, from Robbins NC where he grew up, said on Wednesday in print that they have never made such a statement. How do I know which paper Cheney was referring to? GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK!!!! Find me another NC newspaper that refered to Edwards as “senator gone”, from a place that could conciveably be called his hometown. THERE AREN’T TOO MANY OPTIONS HERE GE!!! SEARCH!!! Find me another…Cheney likely got this talking point from a National Republican Senatorial Committee newsletter, which uses exactly the same language and cites The Pilot for its source.
And here is what the Pilot had to say about the whole thing, “I don’t think it was at all accurate to say we have ‘taken to calling’ the senator anything,” Bouser said. “Remember, this was a one-time reference in an editorial that appeared 15 months ago.”
SO not only did the Vice President mischaracterize the newspaper that he cited, he also misled the American public into believing it was Edwards’ hometown newspaper…
Seriously, you’re really reaching here GE…
2). I’m not even going to respond to this…because if you don’t think Cheney tried to link Iraq directly to the 9-11 attacks then I have nothing more to say…
3). Edwards said the COALITION casualties; he was referring to allies that have joined us in the fight in Iraq. Of course Iraqis have suffered casualties, they are the people we are trying to help, they are not part of the coalition of allies we brought to help them. HOW COULD THEY BE!!! Do their sacrifices matter, of course. But using statistics like this is backwards. Edwards point was that of the people we brought with us to fight in Iraq, we have suffered 90% of the casualties. Is this really too hard for you to comprehend.
3). Don’t believe everything I read in the media??? Why don’t you try reading the TRANSCRIPT YOURSELF!!!! Here is what Edwards said,
“While he was CEO of Halliburton, they paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false information on their company, just like Enron and Ken Lay.
They did business with Libya and Iran, two sworn enemies of the United States.
They're now under investigation for having bribed foreign officials during that period of time.
Not only that, they've gotten a $7.5 billion no-bid contract in Iraq, and instead of part of their money being withheld, which is the way it's normally done, because they're under investigation, they've continued to get their money.”
4). If citing Factcheck.org as a bi-partisan website in the middle of a Vice-Presidential debate is not an endorsement of the website's fact checking ability, then I don’t know what is…
5).Obviously he was not presiding over the Senate at the time he spoke those words, he was at the debate, not really sure what your point is here. Oh and thanks, you’re right, I really have no idea how the Senate works, and I was hoping you could impart some of your endless procedural knowledge upon me. PLEASE!!! You need to admit your VP is serial fabricator!!! If you don’t think Cheney was trying to imply that he served as the presiding officer most Tuesdays in the Senate, then I got nothing more to say…
Besides, the whole point of the story was to say he had never met Edwards befor that night…
Thanks to a little invention called the camera this has been proven to be false. In fact it’ a COMPLETE LIE!!! Lets call it what it is….A LIE!!!
How does that saying go...a picture is worth..
Peace, I’m out.
GE, seroisuly, you need to lay off the Kool Aid… PUT DOWN THE GLASS!!! And don’t ever try and lecture me about simply listening to media talking points.
1). Edwards’ actual hometown newspaper, The News & Observer, from Robbins NC where he grew up, said on Wednesday in print that they have never made such a statement. How do I know which paper Cheney was referring to? GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK!!!! Find me another NC newspaper that refered to Edwards as “senator gone”, from a place that could conciveably be called his hometown. THERE AREN’T TOO MANY OPTIONS HERE GE!!! SEARCH!!! Find me another…Cheney likely got this talking point from a National Republican Senatorial Committee newsletter, which uses exactly the same language and cites The Pilot for its source.
And here is what the Pilot had to say about the whole thing, “I don’t think it was at all accurate to say we have ‘taken to calling’ the senator anything,” Bouser said. “Remember, this was a one-time reference in an editorial that appeared 15 months ago.”
SO not only did the Vice President mischaracterize the newspaper that he cited, he also misled the American public into believing it was Edwards’ hometown newspaper…
Seriously, you’re really reaching here GE…
2). I’m not even going to respond to this…because if you don’t think Cheney tried to link Iraq directly to the 9-11 attacks then I have nothing more to say…
3). Edwards said the COALITION casualties; he was referring to allies that have joined us in the fight in Iraq. Of course Iraqis have suffered casualties, they are the people we are trying to help, they are not part of the coalition of allies we brought to help them. HOW COULD THEY BE!!! Do their sacrifices matter, of course. But using statistics like this is backwards. Edwards point was that of the people we brought with us to fight in Iraq, we have suffered 90% of the casualties. Is this really too hard for you to comprehend.
3). Don’t believe everything I read in the media??? Why don’t you try reading the TRANSCRIPT YOURSELF!!!! Here is what Edwards said,
“While he was CEO of Halliburton, they paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false information on their company, just like Enron and Ken Lay.
They did business with Libya and Iran, two sworn enemies of the United States.
They're now under investigation for having bribed foreign officials during that period of time.
Not only that, they've gotten a $7.5 billion no-bid contract in Iraq, and instead of part of their money being withheld, which is the way it's normally done, because they're under investigation, they've continued to get their money.”
4). If citing Factcheck.org as a bi-partisan website in the middle of a Vice-Presidential debate is not an endorsement of the website's fact checking ability, then I don’t know what is…
5).Obviously he was not presiding over the Senate at the time he spoke those words, he was at the debate, not really sure what your point is here. Oh and thanks, you’re right, I really have no idea how the Senate works, and I was hoping you could impart some of your endless procedural knowledge upon me. PLEASE!!! You need to admit your VP is serial fabricator!!! If you don’t think Cheney was trying to imply that he served as the presiding officer most Tuesdays in the Senate, then I got nothing more to say…
Besides, the whole point of the story was to say he had never met Edwards befor that night…
Thanks to a little invention called the camera this has been proven to be false. In fact it’ a COMPLETE LIE!!! Lets call it what it is….A LIE!!!
How does that saying go...a picture is worth..
Peace, I’m out.
Strange. You must not have read the article. It actually said that the Pilot DID refer to Edwards as "Senator Gone" but quibbled with Cheney's wording about "taking to calling him." Here's a link for you. http://www.ncpress.com/frontjumpPilotJohnEdwards.html
Apparently you CAN find the transcript. Now try reading the rest of it. Can you find the part where Edwards refers to Cheney getting income from Halliburton? That's the part Cheney was referring to.
If you know so much about the Senate, then why did you miss a simple point about Cheney being in the Senate in his office as President of the Senate versus being in the chair as presiding officer?
I like how you type in all caps. It reinforces the whole "insane liberal rage" thing you have going here.
Did you not read the above quote from the Pilot??
This is the FULL transcript of Cheney's remarks from Meet the Press regarding Iraq and 9/11:
Cheney: "If we can stand up a good representative government in Iraq that secures the region so that it never again becomes a threat to its neighbors or to the United States, so it's not pursuing weapons of mass destruction, so that it's not a safe haven for terrorists, now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base -- if you will, the geographic base -- of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years but most especially on 9/11. They understand what's at stake. That's one of the reasons they're putting up as much of a struggle as they have is because they know if we succeed here in Iraq that that's going to strike a major blow at their capabilities."
Russert: "So the resistance in Iraq is coming from those who are responsible for 9/11?"
Vice President Cheney: "No. I was careful not to say that."
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